tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7587459.post3151318437629380771..comments2023-12-05T04:20:37.460-06:00Comments on The Journey: Group Discernment and SuperheroesLizard Eaterhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/04506056116023122414noreply@blogger.comBlogger10125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7587459.post-77807297160317444182011-01-10T21:10:30.068-06:002011-01-10T21:10:30.068-06:00I feel some encouragement in your acknowledging so...I feel some encouragement in your acknowledging some things that have long troubled me. I think I'll give a blog post in response.Phil Schulmanhttp://uumatters.blogspot.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7587459.post-91183634827360987492011-01-10T21:00:10.354-06:002011-01-10T21:00:10.354-06:00I encountered Friends' discernment methods bef...I encountered Friends' discernment methods before seminary and then ended up at a UU seminary. My spouse and I used a clearness committee similarly to how Quakers do (clerked by my Quaker aunt but with several UU's on it and part of the ministerial formation at seminary was a clearness committee around call. Participated in a few others...and recently clerked one for a colleague facing some professional decisions. This method DOES translate to UUism, but I think it works best with someone with personal experience of the process and with the focus person having choice in who is on the committee. I would LOVE to find some partners in creating materials and workshops to help more UU's learn this kind of communal, structured, discernment process. -- Ellen Carvill-Ziemer (that's enough information to google my email...)Ellen Chttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02402513584688866171noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7587459.post-49609155460337739552011-01-10T00:42:56.908-06:002011-01-10T00:42:56.908-06:00In the journey I've started in living out a ca...In the journey I've started in living out a call in ministry, I had a whole series of lengthy and numerous conversations with the ministers (ordained and otherwise) in my life, family members, and friends.<br /><br />Once I got accepted into several seminaries, I literally held a conference call with a handful of these folks to discuss my next steps. While the decision at the time was less important than that of actually discerning a call (and really was mostly about which seminary was the best fit for where I was in my journey), drawing on the wisdom of a community of folks felt important to me. <br /><br />When I set up the structure for the conference call, some family members gave me a hard time because I did things like ask folks to leave a minute or two of silence between each person talking. We didn't end up sticking to it exactly, but I feel that just by sharing my hope that we could really hear one another, it created sort of an open, ongoing silent prayer in the conversation that was ultimately important to the level of clarity reached. <br /><br />What I really want to say, though, is that I think in an ideal world, the communal discernment is really what the MFC process would be. I am not confident that's what it is (it may be in part, but I doubt it is in whole), yet I do think it should be. Communal discernment looks, feels, and *is* much different than gatekeeping, standards-measuring, determining, evaluating, or testing.<br /><br />For UUs, the call comes from community (even if it also comes from God). We call one another into ministry. Unfortunately, in current form, I think that all too often seems to translate into more of a reality of people trying to discern their call on their own. <br /><br />I can imagine an ideal world in which, when a person first is told or begins to feel that they have a call to the ministry arising, and they want to explore that, a community of folks -- both people who know them and people who don't -- are gathered to walk with them in the continual discernment required to uncover a true calling and then refine it. The end result may or may not be ordained ministry in any of its current forms (community, RE, or parish). But no particular outcome is a goal in the beginning except to help the individual uncover the nature of his or her call. <br /><br />This could be the start, middle, and end, of the credentialing process. <br /><br />Can you imagine, for example, after you get the required career assessment, and you get your evaluation back, being able to go to this community whose soul purpose is for you to uncover the nature of your call, and really *process* it with them in such a way that more and more the specificity of your call emerges. There is so much rich stuff in the assessments, why not?<br /><br />It would be a whole different form, and much more powerful. I also think it would make room for the emergence of other uses for the spiritual gifts of UUs in the world, other than ordained ministry (as in what Peter Bowden has been talking about). <br /><br />Sorry to have gotten long.Masasahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00783902610798734846noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7587459.post-62921953719644675542011-01-10T00:42:18.552-06:002011-01-10T00:42:18.552-06:00In the journey I've started in living out a ca...In the journey I've started in living out a call in ministry, I had a whole series of lengthy and numerous conversations with the ministers (ordained and otherwise) in my life, family members, and friends.<br /><br />Once I got accepted into several seminaries, I literally held a conference call with a handful of these folks to discuss my next steps. While the decision at the time was less important than that of actually discerning a call (and really was mostly about which seminary was the best fit for where I was in my journey), drawing on the wisdom of a community of folks felt important to me. <br /><br />When I set up the structure for the conference call, some family members gave me a hard time because I did things like ask folks to leave a minute or two of silence between each person talking. We didn't end up sticking to it exactly, but I feel that just by sharing my hope that we could really hear one another, it created sort of an open, ongoing silent prayer in the conversation that was ultimately important to the level of clarity reached. <br /><br />What I really want to say, though, is that I think in an ideal world, the communal discernment is really what the MFC process would be. I am not confident that's what it is (it may be in part, but I doubt it is in whole), yet I do think it should be. Communal discernment looks, feels, and *is* much different than gatekeeping, standards-measuring, determining, evaluating, or testing.<br /><br />For UUs, the call comes from community (even if it also comes from God). We call one another into ministry. Unfortunately, in current form, I think that all too often seems to translate into more of a reality of people trying to discern their call on their own. <br /><br />I can imagine an ideal world in which, when a person first is told or begins to feel that they have a call to the ministry arising, and they want to explore that, a community of folks -- both people who know them and people who don't -- are gathered to walk with them in the continual discernment required to uncover a true calling and then refine it. The end result may or may not be ordained ministry in any of its current forms (community, RE, or parish). But no particular outcome is a goal in the beginning except to help the individual uncover the nature of his or her call. <br /><br />This could be the start, middle, and end, of the credentialing process. <br /><br />Can you imagine, for example, after you get the required career assessment, and you get your evaluation back, being able to go to this community whose soul purpose is for you to uncover the nature of your call, and really *process* it with them in such a way that more and more the specificity of your call emerges. There is so much rich stuff in the assessments, why not?<br /><br />It would be a whole different form, and much more powerful. I also think it would make room for the emergence of other uses for the spiritual gifts of UUs in the world, other than ordained ministry (as in what Peter Bowden has been talking about). <br /><br />Sorry to have gotten long.Masasahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00783902610798734846noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7587459.post-40422532921855626762011-01-07T17:37:23.360-06:002011-01-07T17:37:23.360-06:00I would love this - the clarity of issues. I find ...I would love this - the clarity of issues. I find that meetings at church are rushed and filled with no sense that it is a church meeting at all. The idea that we could have a place to work through issues as a community - prayer or no prayer - would give each person a moment to share and reflect on what was happening in their lives.<br /><br />Do you HAVE to follow the advice or guidance - no, but it would be great to hear it.goodwolvehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05475291423805924571noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7587459.post-43990172620511368352011-01-07T16:28:34.514-06:002011-01-07T16:28:34.514-06:00I have used this process in several non UU setting...I have used this process in several non UU settings, and it can be helpful in decision making. You have to trust that the people involved really want to come to the right and best possible decision. Which means that when "selfish motives" exist (and they always do) we have to recognize them, and we don't always even know they're selfish (consciously). I can see the process working with a small group of UUs to help make a decision but I can't envision a congregational-meeting-style clearness committee. Much as I would love to....<br /><br />What I can and have seen is small group discussion where all the angst and issues come out, so that in a "big decision meeting" where voting occurs, a meeting leader can summarize the pros and cons before the vote, thereby minimizing discussion in a large meeting.<br /><br />But that's not really the kind of decision you're talking about. You're talking of personal discernment, not democratic vote, which takes me back to - in small group of trusted people of any stripe, this can work.Liz Hillhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00727730306641087170noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7587459.post-62491693901420512252011-01-06T10:43:08.791-06:002011-01-06T10:43:08.791-06:00@Masasa -- can't wait to hear your comment!
A...@Masasa -- can't wait to hear your comment!<br /><br />And I use iMovie to do the videos, which includes an option to add music to the videos. (Though youtube will strip some of the songs.)Lizard Eaterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04506056116023122414noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7587459.post-65485150200319406882011-01-06T10:31:39.862-06:002011-01-06T10:31:39.862-06:00I have a comment I have been composing in my head ...I have a comment I have been composing in my head but haven't yet had a chance to sit down and actually type out. I definitely do plan to comment!<br /><br />In the meantime, totally unrelated question. What program do you use to get music into the videos you make of your kids?Masasahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00783902610798734846noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7587459.post-77205579027013118082011-01-03T19:01:21.430-06:002011-01-03T19:01:21.430-06:00To enter the process you describe, you have to hav...To enter the process you describe, you have to have a lot of trust in the group participating, which to me stems from respecting each other. <br /><br />Do we always, in our uu communities, model and share that respect for each other? Our own uu local community goes up and down on that, and I believe a lot of that stems from modeling/leadership, especially paid leadership (the minister).<br /><br />What you described does sound like a great process, but I would venture that the Friends community had more of that tone of respect and trust than most of our uu communities have right now. I'm a less engaged member of a uu congregation at this point than I have ever been, due to issues of trust and respect within our congregation, and haven't been able to figure out a good way to work/resolve them. Our com. on ministry really isn't functioning right now, and the minister to me isn't functioning in a pastoral role. I don't have the energy really to deal with it, and don't see the possibilities of change. My solution is to withdraw at this time. <br /><br />So your idea of community and trust and discernment sounds great, but I think we are very far from it right now, in most uu communities, including my own.<br /><br />What I can relate that is akin to the discernment process is that I was offered a job in another city that would have the impact of my husband leaving the place he was born and raised, and selling his small business. I was not willing to go without him, and I wanted him to freely decide whether he could do this. We had been married only a year at that time. We were not Friends, or even in a religious community at that time.<br /><br />What we did instead was to consult a university counselor to help us lay out the issues and concerns about the decision for both of us. Then we sought out a couple who had once lived in the city we were considering, and the husband had worked for the company I was offered a job with. We also consulted with my graduate advisor, who knew both of us pretty well. <br /><br />We tried to use this input and our own discussions to help with our decision. It was still a difficult move, especially for my husband, but the discernment process was very helpful and my husband still refers to it as having been a good process for us to go thru.<br /><br />Thanks for sharing your experience with the Friends' process.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7587459.post-50970933928102621012011-01-03T13:39:35.690-06:002011-01-03T13:39:35.690-06:00Count me in as another community-seeking, interdep...Count me in as another community-seeking, interdependence-loving UU. <br /><br />I've been reading a lot of UU history for a January Intensive at Meadville, and the theme of independence has really stood out for me. But I think that Muder's right about something changing. It's not a change to being completely enmeshed with each other, or walking in lock-step. We still want to be strong, responsible, unique individuals. But we also want to be deeply connected to each other.Heatherhttp://nagoonberry.wordpress.comnoreply@blogger.com